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年薪美金三十七億之不像話

2008-04-16 23:59 ｜迴響：17｜點閱：3866

一．

美國投機基金（hedge fund又叫對沖基金）經理 John Paulson 去年個人所得三十七億美金．排名前五名的投機基金經理所得都超過十億美金．交易員月刊（Trader Monthly）上週公佈去年前十名投機基金經理所得，總數達到一百四十億美金．這個數目超過阿富汗和蒙古兩國加總的國民收入總額．詳情見今天的英國金融時報．

不想對這條新聞，甚至次貸問題多做分析或深入評論．只想說搞好了有賺，搞砸了一樣有賺．食肉族的世界不是草食動物能理解的．知道很多的人悶不做聲．知道一點點的人很大聲．完全不知道的人在大浪掩來之前總是很快樂．

次貸問題該負責的一批人，大賺一筆後消遙自在．幾人搞鬼，大家受苦．東方西方原是一家孔方．

（不重要但是有趣的小問題）：三十七億的薪水／紅利支票要存進哪個銀行？是不是得自己開個銀行？昨天繳了多少稅？在一群會計師和律師搞過以後會不會比你我繳得多？

 

二．

如果還是把獨立當成不能質疑的教條，民進黨永遠不能成為真正的民主政黨．把統一當成教條的，一樣．

 

三．

有證據才評論的話，很多人會沒飯吃．不過絕大多數人對沒證據的話特別能產生脊椎思考效應．

 

四．

這些卜向化的不像話．其實是說了又說的陳腔濫調．明白的一次就明白，不明白的永遠也不會明白．只是，不明白也許比較快樂．Ignorance is a blessing.

 

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引用：http://blog.chinatimes.com/cdl/archive/2008/04/16/269820.html
2008-04-16 23:59 ｜作者：CDL卜向化｜分類：劄記｜迴響：17｜點閱：3866

迴響與引用列表

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Hi all,
sorry if my view sounds too much like an over simplified generalization. of course there are always exceptions...i also referred more to some corporations instead of individuals...how lots of very profitable companies and rich individuals managed to avoid paying proportional taxes as they should because they got all those clever accountants to help them find loopholes etc...it's very obvious to many people which i dont' need to say more (as i personally heard/known many)...this is not a place i can go into details to prove my point and i apologize for it.

btw, lots of so called facts (or official statistics ) sometimes can be misleading ,especially when they were being manipulated or shown to the public selectively...( i believe you should also know about this). if you can get access to the detailed info. and look deeper into it you might surprise yourself so much to find out how far the official stories are from the real truth...it depends on their agendas.
pity i don't have access to their details tax information and presumably you don't either, so neither of us can really prove ourselves...

we will just have to agree to disagree. but thanks for the "fact" anyway.





2008-04-18 06:51 ｜ frances

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Legal codes are to protect a status quo, which is for
a society to thrive on, one that is in constant chaos would never offer security and increase well being
for the people, yes, Frances is partially right.

DD is also right in several aspects, his critics about
financial system in Taiwan is absolutely on the
money, our system is at least 20-30 years far
behind wall Street, very limited invest alternatives,
even less government oversight, big capitalists,
politicians, charlatans rule the street.

"Greed" is normal, catch is how to control it,
in the U.S. people break the law would serve a
long long time in jail, in Taiwan those who
commit the crime either go to Mainland or
basking under the California sun, indeed law
is only a reference guide for the rich, an ironclad
straps on the poor, government is the last (maybe
never) resort you should turn to.

Dr. T

2008-04-18 06:45 ｜ Dr. T

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Bob Hu,
我不是全然支持Frances的論點．也不是說所有的富人都為富不仁．任何這樣籠統的說法都站不住腳，因為總有例外．

Rush Limbaugh是共和黨極端的傳聲筒．一面倒向富人的共和黨極右傳聲筒替富人說話一點都不奇怪．

我引一段另一個富人的新聞你看看覺得如何?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3869458&page=1

巴婓(Warren Buffet)說富人應該還要多付稅，因為他的稅率只有18%，而他的雇員得繳到33%.他的稅率比他的秘書還低．

你覺得如何?

2008-04-18 04:20 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Only The Rich Pay Taxes (in USA)

To: frances

This is NOT attack, just the fact.

You wrote: "worst of all, most richest people pay least tax to tax department..". You sound like well educated person, where did you get this information??? This is one of the biggest myth speared by some people and media. In 2001, top 1% US income earners pay 33.89% of total tax, and top 5% US income earners pay 53.25% of total tax. Other years are very close to those numbers…. THIS IS FACT. The following is the link:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/top_50__of_wage_earners_pay_96_09__of_income_taxes.guest.html

The fact is, the riches people pay most of tax, they take risk and crate jobs. Please read fact not myth.

2008-04-17 22:40 ｜ Bob Hu

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Dr. T,
Ain't it?


Frances,
你抓到那個字了：貪．


All,
很多金融產品有它的社會功能．但也有只是純粹操作的金錢玩具(或是說能放迷霧的’法寶’?)．偏偏這些東西的報酬特別大(因為風險等等因素)．貪婪的投資者碰到投其所好的生產者加上有權管理的人有意或無意忽略，累積起來就會出大紕漏．
我明天開始要忙一個禮拜．等忙過興致還在，會寫篇東西簡單說說次貸問題．

2008-04-17 22:39 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

I can understand writer's feeling over this world's distorted distribution of wealth...
As in many countries, legal systems are there to serve the rich; and legalised dealings or earnnings often carry little or no morals...
worst of all, most richest people pay least tax to tax department...how could this possibly be fair or right?

All we can hope for is there will be more wealthy people donate their wealth towards charities or serving some good...

Knowing how to spend your fortunes on right places is the most important kind of wisedom that tells what kind of person you are...let's hope he has the wisdom for spending his fortune.

Capitalism is based on one of the worst human natures (greed) so we cam hardly do much about this sickening trend of money grabbing as well as gambling...
anyway this is my personal opinion. i won't respond to any attack.

2008-04-17 16:50 ｜ frances

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Paulson just hired Greespan as an adviser, what
an irony!

Dr. T

2008-04-17 13:58 ｜ Dr. T

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

DD,
沒關係﹐措辭更強烈的我也碰過。
不過，我還是得說﹕你怎麼會認為我在指責John Paulson呢？他拿的當然是交付他管理投資的那些人同意按契約付他的錢。我並沒有說他違法。唯一可能引起誤會的是好像說了他是該為次貸問題負責的人。(當然不是)只是拿他當例子說明Wall Street﹐尤其是hedge fund的pay schedule已經到了很畸形的地步。合法並不表示這個制度沒有問題。什麼問題，我真的沒時間多說。Dr. T提到了一些東西，也許你可以再看看。


我這個寫東西懶散的習慣還真是傷腦筋呀……

2008-04-17 11:06 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

我錯在用語太強烈
但你不該將矛頭指向PAULSON。他是大大賺一狗票沒錯，但他的行為完全合法、依照契約行事，他的客戶開心，他更不該為次貸負責。他洞燭機先、承擔風險，獲取報酬，不過如此爾。

你該怪的是美林、UBS、貝爾史登、countrywide等等機構跟其主事者，他們在房市泡沫大賺其錢，泡沫終結後只是丟官，所受懲處的確是不足。當然如果你覺得葛老應該為刻意長期壓低利率環境負責，也可以罵罵他。

2008-04-17 10:47 ｜ DD

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

的確
你的高見，
真的只能欣賞就好。

2008-04-17 10:45 ｜ bill

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

問老葛是不是見其一不見其二？
其實次貸問題的根源只一個字。明白我說的是什麼字就知道我為什麼把這樣高的報酬當成是問題，和為什麼次貸問題會產生。更別說以前衍生產品出的問題。記得Orange County, Long Term Capital嗎?

還有﹐我必須要澄清的是，也許是當扎記寫的關係，所以說得簡略，說了Paulson的pay﹐轉念想到次貸問題的根源就提它一提，如果是這樣造成誤會說我認為Paulson是造成次貸問題的一群人，那是得怪我沒寫詳細。不過我真沒想寫詳細。

不多說了。各位高見，我欣賞就好。

2008-04-17 10:28 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

任何人值不值得這樣的高薪??
這也算是個問題?????
這的確有些批判高所得人的味道~~
DD好像也沒有指你把資貸和PAULSON扯在一起~
他不過是把自由市場的運作講了一遍而已
你的文章 先講了PAULSON賺了一票，
文末又講「該負責的一批人，賺了一筆後逍遙自在」
這隱含什麼意思??
真要問次貸問題的根源，
去問老葛吧~~

2008-04-17 10:14 ｜ bill

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

憤世有脊髓反射式的，也有看盡紅塵式的。兩端中間也還有無限的可能。簡單的一句憤世嫉俗倒是很容易下的評語，不是嗎？

2008-04-17 10:07 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

投資者是不是真的了解投資產品的潛在風險﹐還是因為其他的因素忽略這些風險.

很抱歉，我必須說Dr. T 的說法比DD的說法更接近裡子。

2008-04-17 10:01 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

DD﹐
我並沒有把次貸和John Paulson搞在一起。
麻煩你再讀一遍。
次貸的問題來自信用評等機構對CDO的惡搞。別的我不多說。
引這則新聞只在問一個問題﹕任何一個人值得這麼多的pay嗎?
次貸的問題真正的根源是什麼？評等機構為什麼對CDO拿捏不嚴?
你要不要說說看？

2008-04-17 09:57 ｜ CDL卜向化

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

Paulson started at the beginning of 2007 with 6bn,
by year end total hedge fund worths 28 billion,
salary at 3.7 bn, outlandish? it all depend, his
clients might not think so.

He bets on the calamities of subprime mortgage,
short on those assets guarantee this dubious
mortgages, i.e. insurance cos. Important is he did
everything according to the rules.

Maybe we should think more about few problems
of our own; the "structured products" (lien dong
zhai), when investors complained about the
shrinking of their assets (one million investment
became 170,000), somethings were wrong there,
did the over-zealous brokers oversold it?
did the firm invested in something they shouldn't?
did the firm is up to the job?
lastly, did they break any laws?

Our SEC (jin guaan huei) hasn't done their job
all along, nobody takes responsibility. Subprime
crisis now reached a global loss of 936 billion
(close to 1 trillion), yet this crisis is still no end
in sight, why? because packaging after packaging,
derivative after derivative, nobody now can trace
to the origin, how can they gauge a positive
loss figures.

this is a very complicated issue, at least our
government official should learn some basics to
coup with these rapid changing situations.

It's very possible these "structured products" will
turn into Taiwan's subprime time bomb.

Dr. T

2008-04-17 09:52 ｜ Dr. T

回應： 年薪美金三十七億之不像話

你完全沒有搞清楚狀況
PAULSON他是預見房貸市場已經產生不合理泡沫，次貸風暴將會爆發，所以下大量空單。他在風暴真的發生前也是壓了兩年，當時市場根本不認為房貸的榮景會這麼快結束，所以他當時承受了很大的損失。次貸要怪投銀、房貸業者，壓根跟他一點關係也沒有。他依照合約為他基金的投資人在絕大多數投資人都承受嚴重虧損時大賺一票後分紅，有什麼不對？他的投資人都沒抗議，你有何不平？你知道嗎，他的基金投資人可多半是退休、公教基金甚至大學基金啊。
你要怪的是我們國家的市場為什麼沒有多樣化的投資工具，可以對各種市場做多也可以做空。
憤世嫉俗是完全無助於改變現狀的。

2008-04-17 09:41 ｜ DD

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